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THEMA: Motorola & DCC in combination - is not bad?
THEMA: Motorola & DCC in combination - is not bad?
Vadim - 20.01.10 13:44
Hello:
I have a trottle which can send as Motorolla(Märklin) as well as DCC comands at one output to rails.
As to me - I use it as follows:
I have all DCC locomotives and Motorola + s88 track control (Feedback and turnouts decoders )
If I ll sending commands to Loco - DCC is used, If I ll swiching turnouts - Motorolla packets is used.
Recently, I've digitized small 14-turnout's test part of my layout. I used some original blocks(Märklin) from official manufacturer. But these blocks are TOO expensive.
Now my aim is to make my own Turnout and s88 decoders for all my layout for a couple of Euros.
In Case of Motorolla - these decoders are simply and consist of a couple TTL chips.
In Case of DCC - in addition to the same quantity of elements - i must learn NMRA standarts for DCC and assembler and programm Uc Processors.
Therefore i make this CONCLUSION: I think that Motorolla decoders are more simplier for construction and there are no difficulties with learning assembler & NMRA and programming.
QUESTION: Is it worth to Combine at one layout DCC & Motorolla format simultaniously (as described below)?
Which Disadvantages i can ged, doing so?
------
Thanks,
Vadim.
I have a trottle which can send as Motorolla(Märklin) as well as DCC comands at one output to rails.
As to me - I use it as follows:
I have all DCC locomotives and Motorola + s88 track control (Feedback and turnouts decoders )
If I ll sending commands to Loco - DCC is used, If I ll swiching turnouts - Motorolla packets is used.
Recently, I've digitized small 14-turnout's test part of my layout. I used some original blocks(Märklin) from official manufacturer. But these blocks are TOO expensive.
Now my aim is to make my own Turnout and s88 decoders for all my layout for a couple of Euros.
In Case of Motorolla - these decoders are simply and consist of a couple TTL chips.
In Case of DCC - in addition to the same quantity of elements - i must learn NMRA standarts for DCC and assembler and programm Uc Processors.
Therefore i make this CONCLUSION: I think that Motorolla decoders are more simplier for construction and there are no difficulties with learning assembler & NMRA and programming.
QUESTION: Is it worth to Combine at one layout DCC & Motorolla format simultaniously (as described below)?
Which Disadvantages i can ged, doing so?
------
Thanks,
Vadim.
As I see, there are nothing who think about it.
---
Vadim
---
Vadim
Michael S. - 21.01.10 19:13
Hello Vadim,
It's simply a rare combination in the 1/160 world. Probably you should ask the big guys (H0).
Kind regards, Michael
It's simply a rare combination in the 1/160 world. Probably you should ask the big guys (H0).
Kind regards, Michael
Thanks, Michael.
As to me - i use Viessman Commander to work with my N-Scale layout.
This Commander allows to work in different protocols in any combination and has dispatcher turnout and occupancy panel.
--------
Vadim.
As to me - i use Viessman Commander to work with my N-Scale layout.
This Commander allows to work in different protocols in any combination and has dispatcher turnout and occupancy panel.
--------
Vadim.
Vadim,
In my view the combination is not that bad since both protocols are quite similar.
http://www.digital-bahn.de/bau_weiche/wz_weiche.htm (written in German) shows you the combined approach of one layout with two firmware versions - one for Motorola and one for DCC.
Thus, I don't believe that the hardware of Motorola turnout decoders is simpler.
Regards
Burkhard
In my view the combination is not that bad since both protocols are quite similar.
http://www.digital-bahn.de/bau_weiche/wz_weiche.htm (written in German) shows you the combined approach of one layout with two firmware versions - one for Motorola and one for DCC.
Thus, I don't believe that the hardware of Motorola turnout decoders is simpler.
Regards
Burkhard
Thanks,
As to me - my present task -is to make my own turnout decoders as simply as possible without any processors and programming.
Why i ll do it: - I require a lot of decoders and decoders from all suppliers at railroad stores are very very and very expensive!
Recently i opened (my friend's) Marklin/Motorolla decoder and seen that there are 2 small CMOS low integration Logic chips (ML 145027 and HC74)!
LINK:
http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/207070/LANSDALE/ML145027-5P.html
Simply, i plan to copy this scheets, buy this chips for a dollar and solder my decoders.
These doings are unable at DCC. DCC turnout decoders require processors and programming due to DCC format is more complicated and (As i understood) there are no special chip for decoding it.
As i see DCC and Motorolla formats can be used simultaneously in any combination - i ll plan to use DCC locos and Motorolla format for turnouts. I already tested it at my small part of layout with Viessmann Commander (Trottle with color graphical dispatcher panel, which allow all formats in any combinations)
That do You think about it?
----
Vadim
As to me - my present task -is to make my own turnout decoders as simply as possible without any processors and programming.
Why i ll do it: - I require a lot of decoders and decoders from all suppliers at railroad stores are very very and very expensive!
Recently i opened (my friend's) Marklin/Motorolla decoder and seen that there are 2 small CMOS low integration Logic chips (ML 145027 and HC74)!
LINK:
http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/207070/LANSDALE/ML145027-5P.html
Simply, i plan to copy this scheets, buy this chips for a dollar and solder my decoders.
These doings are unable at DCC. DCC turnout decoders require processors and programming due to DCC format is more complicated and (As i understood) there are no special chip for decoding it.
As i see DCC and Motorolla formats can be used simultaneously in any combination - i ll plan to use DCC locos and Motorolla format for turnouts. I already tested it at my small part of layout with Viessmann Commander (Trottle with color graphical dispatcher panel, which allow all formats in any combinations)
That do You think about it?
----
Vadim
Vadim,
I understand your intention. However, the mentioned IC 145027 alone costs in Germany around 4 €.
The cost for the PIC-based decoder mentioned in http://www.digital-bahn.de/bau_weiche/weichzwei.htm counts to 4 € in total - board and all electronic devices included.
Maybe the prices in Russia are different, but in Germany I don't see any advantage to rebuild old-fashioned Märklin decoders which are switch-based instead of software-configured.
Best
Burkhard
I understand your intention. However, the mentioned IC 145027 alone costs in Germany around 4 €.
The cost for the PIC-based decoder mentioned in http://www.digital-bahn.de/bau_weiche/weichzwei.htm counts to 4 € in total - board and all electronic devices included.
Maybe the prices in Russia are different, but in Germany I don't see any advantage to rebuild old-fashioned Märklin decoders which are switch-based instead of software-configured.
Best
Burkhard
Hello Burkhard!
You forgot about time and resources which i must spend for learning assembler, and for programming. Taking this in mind, these above mentioned equation are going to inequality.
From the other hand - Hardvare configuration i would mark as advantage but not as disadvantage!
You forgot about time and resources which i must spend for learning assembler, and for programming. Taking this in mind, these above mentioned equation are going to inequality.
From the other hand - Hardvare configuration i would mark as advantage but not as disadvantage!
Vadim,
you only need a PIC programmer, e.g PICKIT2 for less than 30,- EUR.
No cost for development software - this is for free.
No cost for learning assember - decoder firmware HEX files are available for free around.
Flashing a PIC is a one-step action - just a few seconds! Faster than writing these lines here...
Regards, Peter
you only need a PIC programmer, e.g PICKIT2 for less than 30,- EUR.
No cost for development software - this is for free.
No cost for learning assember - decoder firmware HEX files are available for free around.
Flashing a PIC is a one-step action - just a few seconds! Faster than writing these lines here...
Regards, Peter
Vadim,
I agree with Peter. Unless you intend to implement some particularities you don't have to learn the PIC assembler language. By the way, the recommended homepage offers turnout decoders for several types of turnouts (e.g. 3-way) and turnout drives (coil type, motor type, servo type) and also several types of signals (Swiss, Austrian and also the eastern type HL of the former GDR).
The blank circuit board is avaliable for 1 Euro. I believe the risk of developping and testing an own hardware layout is much higher.
Regards
Burkhard
I agree with Peter. Unless you intend to implement some particularities you don't have to learn the PIC assembler language. By the way, the recommended homepage offers turnout decoders for several types of turnouts (e.g. 3-way) and turnout drives (coil type, motor type, servo type) and also several types of signals (Swiss, Austrian and also the eastern type HL of the former GDR).
The blank circuit board is avaliable for 1 Euro. I believe the risk of developping and testing an own hardware layout is much higher.
Regards
Burkhard
Thanks.
But i need one board decoder for 32 turnouts simultaneously.
This more cost-effective than making 8 separate 4-turnout decoders.
------
Vadim
But i need one board decoder for 32 turnouts simultaneously.
This more cost-effective than making 8 separate 4-turnout decoders.
------
Vadim
Vadim,
due to my understanding the IC 145027 can only handle up to 4 turnouts.
Thus you have to build several circuits in parallel.
In my view it doesn't make much sense to integrate 8 times the ic 145027 on one board.
You also should take into consideration the effort of wiring.
Maybe that explains the weak amount of large decoders to be found on the internet.
(I guess the limit is 8 turnouts and those decoders are based upon a bigger microcontroller.)
Thus, you have to create your own circuit.
Best
Burkhard
due to my understanding the IC 145027 can only handle up to 4 turnouts.
Thus you have to build several circuits in parallel.
In my view it doesn't make much sense to integrate 8 times the ic 145027 on one board.
You also should take into consideration the effort of wiring.
Maybe that explains the weak amount of large decoders to be found on the internet.
(I guess the limit is 8 turnouts and those decoders are based upon a bigger microcontroller.)
Thus, you have to create your own circuit.
Best
Burkhard
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